Struggling to find the enjoyment

[Gosnell]

I finally sat down and played Foundations for about 20 hours, and I'm just struggling to find a sense of adventure and choice I had in the previous X Games. The following is a list of what I like and dislike.
Let's start with the positives, god knows there are enough X4 sucks threads.
Positives
1. Standing in a station watching Ships Land is beautiful.
2. The station building is remarkably easy.
3. No loading Screens in between sectors.Credit where creditsssss are due. That is a technical achievement.
4. Different ships to fly, again Bernd wtf were you smoking during X-Rebirth.
That's all the positives I have for it
Negatives
1. The lack of story and context, throughout my current playthrough, I have felt little to no sense of immersion within the universe, who are the HOP, who is the SCA, why are certain races at war with others, why as argon am I free to fly in HOP space.
2. The U.I, I just don't get it. Why can't I just select a station and see what it produces and what it requires? Why on earth is resource information faded black unless I hover my mouse over it? Why the hell is there 2 separate windows for my ships, if I hadn't checked the forum, I would never have found the page that allows you to set behaviors. I really feel that the U.I is worse than X3 and that's saying something. Mission Icons aren't really clear in comparison to X3
3.The ship DESIGNS...There is nothing distinctive or awe-inspiring, with the exception off the paint jobs everything looks like plastic toys, not space ships, especially the Paranid Destroyers.
4.Weapons and Customisation: Wtf happened...In X3 you had a crazy roster of weaponry, customizable turrets, and sensible turret distribution, In X4 we have the most generic, uninspired weapons.
5.Combat: It's flat, there is no wow factor, no holy shit moments. Capital ships have no shock and awe feel to them. I genuinely have no sense of engagement watching fleets duke it out.
6.Stations art style. In Previous X games it was clear what a station was just by looking at it, The spinning cylinder of an argon trading station, the OTAS HQ. In X4 the stations are generic to look at, each stations looking remarkably similar to the last.
7.Wrecks....Egosoft, the wrecks are the worst art asset in the game, it's just an awfully poor effort, Such bad quality, I would rather not have. Especially as they serve no purpose..At least let us salvage them for parts or hull plates ect.
8.Station Interiors. Again such low effort and wasted development time, You guys used to make great space games, stick to what you know and what your budget can manage...You have very poor internal station artists.It feels like an early 2000 MMO hub area, functional but not worth spending time in.
9. Speaking of spending time...if you're going to make us wait for cooldowns on upgrades and ships whilst docked at least give us something to do or see whilst we wait. Watching low-quality NPCS Sprinting on treadmills is not entertaining.
10. I genuinely don't know why they made such a change to the X-Universe...but its no longer the series I lost 1000s of hours to.
11. Nearly forgot The EVA Suit, the whole experience is atrocious, the sound design to the controls are godawful.
To conclude, let me say that I desperately want to enjoy X4, But it's just not catching me like the previous games.

[radcapricorn]

Station building is easy only while you stick to simple stations. Anything complex (lots of modules), and all you get is a green line soup and no easy way to snap the darn things where you want. As for "no loading screens", it was a technical achievement. A decade ago or so. At least for heavy games. And it's not like e.g. Frontier hadn't already achieved that way way before even X-BtF Today? Nothing out of the ordinary, I don't understand why people are making such a big deal of it. Computers are fast.

Absolutely agree with you on the UI. For some bizarre reason, Egosoft's severe acute XMLitis invaded even their UI design. Trees everywhere.

Station style? Hmmm... I'd beg to differ. There were a handful of immediately recognizable shapes in X3. Shipyards, eq. docks, trading stations, power plants, headquarters. All those that were few and far between. Also the temple and player HQ, but those were unique anyway. For everything else, you had to train yourself to identify various parts to tell what the station was. X4 is absolutely the same in this regard. In fact, I'd say that those "parts" (which are now proper modules) are easier to recognize here than they were there. Can you immediately recall how an Energy Bolt Chaingun Ammunition Forge looked like?

Something interesting to look for while landed on station would certainly help. A Teladi approaching escape velocity on the travellator against the grain is amusing, but indeed gets old rather quickly.

Wrecks? They're not entirely useless. Not that they're tremendously useful either though. What'd be cool to see (but unlikely to happen) is actual wrecks of ships destroyed in combat being towed somewhere for recycling, perhaps even with player involvement.

I don't quite get your point on EVA suit, could you elaborate?

[DaMuncha]

As a technical achievement is a marvel to behold, but it lacks any personality, I stopped playing months ago. The game has no soul, no emotional conection to any part of it. It has no story, no character, and nothing driving it. There's no reason to keep playing it because theres no reward and no end. Its just something to do with no reason for it. I've got plenty of other much worse games that I can still feel an achievement from finishing. I Just beat Darksouls III last week. Terrible game but I feel I have achieved something at the end of it.

[Gosnell]

I don't quite get your point on EVA suit, could you elaborate?

The suit noises sound like bad static,and the controls are aweful

[phrozen1]

1. The lack of story and context, throughout my current playthrough, I have felt little to no sense of immersion within the universe, who are the HOP, who is the SCA, why are certain races at war with others, why as argon am I free to fly in HOP space.

I'm totally with you. X4 still feels more like a Tech-Demo not like a finished game. I still play for a few hours here and there but the lack of immersion is very sad...

[Axeface]

I agree with most of your points, except your opinion that the station interiors in general are a mistake and the EVA suit. I think the EVA suit is very well done, I like the controls and I like the sounds. Perhaps you havent figured out that backspace brings you to a full stop?
I do think that its weird that we are in a seat though, it should just be a suit with thrusters.

[spankahontis]

I finally sat down and played Foundations for about 20 hours, and I'm just struggling to find a sense of adventure and choice I had in the previous X Games. The following is a list of what I like and dislike.
Let's start with the positives, god knows there are enough X4 sucks threads.
Positives
1. Standing in a station watching Ships Land is beautiful.
2. The station building is remarkably easy.
3. No loading Screens in between sectors.Credit where creditsssss are due. That is a technical achievement.
4. Different ships to fly, again Bernd wtf were you smoking during X-Rebirth.
That's all the positives I have for it
Negatives
1. The lack of story and context, throughout my current playthrough, I have felt little to no sense of immersion within the universe, who are the HOP, who is the SCA, why are certain races at war with others, why as argon am I free to fly in HOP space.
2. The U.I, I just don't get it. Why can't I just select a station and see what it produces and what it requires? Why on earth is resource information faded black unless I hover my mouse over it? Why the hell is there 2 separate windows for my ships, if I hadn't checked the forum, I would never have found the page that allows you to set behaviors. I really feel that the U.I is worse than X3 and that's saying something. Mission Icons aren't really clear in comparison to X3
3.The ship DESIGNS...There is nothing distinctive or awe-inspiring, with the exception off the paint jobs everything looks like plastic toys, not space ships, especially the Paranid Destroyers.
4.Weapons and Customisation: Wtf happened...In X3 you had a crazy roster of weaponry, customizable turrets, and sensible turret distribution, In X4 we have the most generic, uninspired weapons.
5.Combat: It's flat, there is no wow factor, no holy shit moments. Capital ships have no shock and awe feel to them. I genuinely have no sense of engagement watching fleets duke it out.
6.Stations art style. In Previous X games it was clear what a station was just by looking at it, The spinning cylinder of an argon trading station, the OTAS HQ. In X4 the stations are generic to look at, each stations looking remarkably similar to the last.
7.Wrecks....Egosoft, the wrecks are the worst art asset in the game, it's just an awfully poor effort, Such bad quality, I would rather not have. Especially as they serve no purpose..At least let us salvage them for parts or hull plates ect.
8.Station Interiors. Again such low effort and wasted development time, You guys used to make great space games, stick to what you know and what your budget can manage...You have very poor internal station artists.It feels like an early 2000 MMO hub area, functional but not worth spending time in.
9. Speaking of spending time...if you're going to make us wait for cooldowns on upgrades and ships whilst docked at least give us something to do or see whilst we wait. Watching low-quality NPCS Sprinting on treadmills is not entertaining.
10. I genuinely don't know why they made such a change to the X-Universe...but its no longer the series I lost 1000s of hours to.
11. Nearly forgot The EVA Suit, the whole experience is atrocious, the sound design to the controls are godawful.
To conclude, let me say that I desperately want to enjoy X4, But it's just not catching me like the previous games.

" The lack of story and context,"

X3 had story and context? X Games have never been known for being chocked full of story content.
Operation Final Fury, the Terran Conflict, they were little Skyrim style Side Quests that you could choose to be apart of. Most tended to write their own story which a sandbox is really about.
That's one thing X:Rebirth did tons better than X4 and X3 and that was storyline, the development between Yisha Terran and Ren Otani with other side characters; could Rebirth have done better with it's storyline/plot? Maybe? But X4's story content reminds me of X3 in a sense you would get those side quests. Bare in Mind that there is several chunks of content on it's way, starting with the Split dlc and eventually the return of the Boron so who's to say this issue wont be addressed later?

"The U.I, I just don't get it."

People were complaining that Rebirth's UI was too simple, too streamlined so it feels more like damned if Egosoft do, damned if they don't.
But I agree that there is allot that could be done to improve the UI of X4.
For example, boarding operations, you have to go through a time consuming task of scrolling through the list of marines on the captured ship and communicating with each one to relocate back to the boarding ship.
If you used 40 marines to capture a Helios? It takes well-over 10 minutes to land each boarding ship, fill it up one Marine at a time and move on to the next boarding ship before you've
got all your marines back on their boarding ships for another Boarding Operation. THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED.

Again a case where X:Rebirth did this allot better! People don't give X:R enough credit, some UI decisions in Rebirth are superior to X3 and X4, boarding being one of them.

"The ship DESIGNS...There is nothing distinctive or awe-inspiring"

Personally, they look fine to me, if anything the Paranid ships we're a bad example, Apart from the Argon Quasar and Eclipse (Which are my personal favorites), allot of the Argon ships are either similar to X3 or are boxy looking.
Also you have to take into account, ships now have to be designed to walk around in, some designs from X3 may not of been practical for ships when you bare in mind.. Surface elements like shields, turrets, launchers and landing pads for smaller ships etc.

I'd argue it's the lack of Capital Ships that let the game down here rather than their designs, also having the same ship but with a slightly different stat and a Sentinel/Vanguard on the end of it makes me feel like this will get in the way of what Egosoft said when they wanted the "Right balance of ship numbers in the game" to not go mad like they did after Albion Prelude, but the feeling that Rebirth didn't have enough ships (Which they too were pulling the Vanguard, Sentinel, Raider game) to make it look like you had a large choice of ships when they were the same ones with a slightly different stat).
They should of allowed us to mod our own stats for ships, if we wanted slow but powerful ships vs a fast but less armed version of the same ship.

"Weapons and Customisation: Wtf happened"

I agree, to an extent that we want more 'varieties of weapons' but what X3 didn't do right here is they would have a gun, say.. The Photon Pulse Cannon, but have an alpha/beta/gamma version of the same weapon which clogged X3 with unnecessary weapon types and confusing stat comparisons.
A simple one weapon with an advanced MK 2 version which you would need more rep with that Faction to acquire and build, paired with what X4 has now in the weapons mods to customize that alpha/beta/gamma side for us and to the specs we want.
Remove the clutter and concentrate on giving us more unique weapons, bringing back weapons from the past like the Shockwave Generator and the Matter/Anti-Matter Launcher.

If anything, allot of problems X4 has at the moment in this field could be solved in terms of, for example.. Destroyers like the Xenon K and Xenon I having trouble shooting faster more nimble ships like Corvettes and fighter class ships.
Egosoft developing a more Rock, Paper, Scissors system of weapons that are good at destroying particular vessels, but are crap at destroying others?
Which forces the player to have the right balance of ships in their Fleets. If they can't shoot down bombers then you can use that to your advantage and force out a ton of bombers and decimate them.

"Combat: It's flat, there is no wow factor, no holy shit moments. "

Allot of these problems are tied down to (First) animation of a destroyed Capital ship.. GOD I miss the way a Capital ship was destroyed in X:Rebirth, that huge dispersal wave when the reactor goes to critical (WHY EGOSOFT!!!??) Again, Rebirth gets no love for things it did better than X3 and X4. Wasn't a bad game, play that and X4 and there are many things that Rebirth simply did better than X4 and X3, there are things X3 did better than Rebirth but so many examples (That i've pointed out) which should of stayed from Rebirth into X4 and you got rid of them because of what? Pressure of being burned by the base?
You use boarding pods to Land and then capture a ship, yet you can't use them to get back onto your boarding ship? Nuts!

Second.. AI has always been questionable, one could argue a slight decline? But AI has to work allot harder now, complex stations, more polys on everything down to asteroids must put some strain on a ships pathfinding and more graphics, more resources which maybe affects the AI of a ship?


And third, what i've stated about weapons, not enough variety and not balanced in a way that one has to be tactical about what they send out to fight?

"Stations art style."

Sorry but just do not agree with that.

X4's system you can do anything with Station modules, plus the AI Factions are making various random creations so every station is different as it's completely randomised.
The Teladi have Habitation Stations which other factions don't have, the Paranid, Argon and the Teladi have their own unique modules (Apart from most Production modules Nostrop/Teladianium=Teladi, Soya Husks/Beans=Paranid being the exception).
Rebirth had several unique buildings that you could not build yourself.. I only hope that Egosoft expand their Station Building tool to include Unique Buildings like the Teladi Habitation Etc. Those would be cool stations to have.. Also they said the Split will have their own Unique modules and buildings in the upcoming dlc.
X4's system is more complex while still making it cleaner than how you built mega-complexes in X3, it was a nightmare, especially in places like Elena's Fortune when the micro-meteorites interfered with station placement.

"Wrecks....Egosoft, the wrecks are the worst art asset in the game, it's just an awfully poor effort, Such bad quality, I would rather not have. Especially as they serve no purpose..At least let us salvage them for parts or hull plates ect."

+1
A whole new economy in junk salvage, miners turning wrecks into hull parts. That's an awesome idea.

"Station Interiors. Again such low effort and wasted development time, You guys used to make great space games, stick to what you know and what your budget can manage...You have very poor internal station artists.It feels like an early 2000 MMO hub area, functional but not worth spending time in."

Necessary evil when doing missions, I hope someday they can make it so you can customize interiors to your tastes, new Furniture, items, ad boards with your company slogan on it etc. the things modders could do with that if given the right tools could sort that problem out?
But building interiors the way they have is efficient, take a lift to a new room, so many avenues to build things like a Park area, shopping mall, casino etc.
More variety would make landing fun just to see different buildings with their own unique missions, perks and visuals.

" Speaking of spending time"

I found the lack of people (Especially Equipment Docks) a problem in this regard, like ghost towns, but understand that adding more NPC's means FPS drops, so finding the right balance.
But the previous ideas would alleviate allot of the sense of boredom on Stations.. Slight improvement to Rebirth, but still needs to improve.

" I genuinely don't know why they made such a change to the X-Universe...but its no longer the series I lost 1000s of hours to."

That's a matter of opinion, I clocked nearly 3000 hours in Rebirth, only a few hundred in X3.. X3 is not the golden calf, I don't buy that "In the good old days" schtick.
It had problems that made it frustrating. I've not seen an X Game that hasn't frustrated me, more so now than X4 simply because the awesome features it has are mostly broken like the War Mechanic and that Factions will build in enemy territory, they just wont take it from their enemy; but I lay in hope that this is fixed by 3.0.
Even Rebirth when you add the CWIR Mod makes it awesome to play.
X3 has no war mechanic other than the stupid 'changing of the guards' script between the Argon in Omicron Lyrae and the Terrans in Heretics End. It was repetitive and a monkey could figure out how it worked?

"To conclude, let me say that I desperately want to enjoy X4, But it's just not catching me like the previous games."

When it comes to the way the Music is played in X4, +1. The ominous music gets in the way of the awesome works of Alexei Zakharov; the man is a creative genius and his music deserves better than the current set up of how music is prioritized in the game.

Sound effects however? Meh? Maybe you're right about that to me personally, but I've never found the sound effects in any X Game captivating, a "must try harder!" from me.

[radcapricorn]

I do think that its weird that we are in a seat though, it should just be a suit with thrusters.

On the contrary. Having thrusters on a fixed attachment (like jetpack, or, in this case, a seat) makes it easy to control center of mass and thus thrust direction. Without such control, you'd always tend to spin no matter which direction you thrust. Having thrusters directly on the suit would require pilot to wave arms and legs, which would only complicate matters. Then again, it's a game. But people are crying for immersion, and that seat is actually it

[Gosnell]

The point i was trying to make about stations is that they just look like randomised lego constructs,the modules are all the same just rearanged.

[alt3rn1ty]

For the EVA Egosoft have something new planned for the Space suit in (possibly) version 3 of the game .. Being able to dock with a Space station.

I made a post about issues with not having that ages ago - viewtopic.php?f=192&t=405910&p=4777464

Currently you can fly into a dock where people are walking around, without using the EVA thrusters to keep you aloft where there is obviously artificial gravity = Doesn't make sense.

And docking with your landed ship is just awkward depending on the shape of the ship and especially when the space suit docking bay is underneath the ship ..

Anyway, I think Egosoft took that onboard, and have promised an EVA Space suit docking port for stations :

viewtopic.php?f=146&t=413180

Update 3.00
An early gameplay feature that 3.00 will improve is the ability to dock directly at station with a spacesuit and to get other NPC ships to transport you, by offering missions to them.

-------------------

The noise of the suits thrusters though seem about right imho, I have seen other people complain about the sounds of those, maybe its a case of how complex your sound setup is, on my laptops 2.1 stereo with subwoofer they sound good

[radcapricorn]

The noise of the suits thrusters though seem about right imho, I have seen other people complain about the sounds of those, maybe its a case of how complex your sound setup is, on my laptops 2.1 stereo with subwoofer they sound good

Could be also dependent on starting scenario. I think the Teladi ones sound different.

[surferx]

1. I hope more story line will be coming with the expansions.

2. Could be improved, however with more game play (1000+ hrs) I mostly got used to it.

3. Designs, again I hope more coming with expansions. I was not disappointed with the current lot. There is more animation and in X3 could you hop out of one ship and walk over to another ship and board it? Of course you couldn't. You are overlooking huge improvements in ship design in X4.

4. I would love to see more weapons and weapons that are based on the different races.

5. Combat could be improved, still not a major disappointment.

6. Stations in X3 - single predesigned structure. X4 stations consist of modules. Advantage X4.

7. You can't complain about X3 wrecks as the ships just explode and disappear. X4 is an improvement.

8. X3 stations had no interiors which people complained was a step down from X2, which some said was a step down from XBTF or Xtension..At least they made the effort this time, again I would like to see a Teladi dock, Paranid dock, Argon dock....

9. Disagree. The station build cutscene in X3 killed the immersion (let's pretend this just took days instead of seconds), as did building 20 ships instanttly. In X4 you can watch the ship materialize. It takes a few minutes to change out your weapons and engine? It's quicker than a RL oil change!
I would like to see a bar in every station and maybe a game-in-game (pool? or solitaire) to pass the time, but I'm always looking to hire crew as I usually only upgrade new or capped ships.

10. People asked for it. For something new, tired of seeing retreads.

11. What radcapricorn said.

[Tomonor]

I will comment on your points I do not agree with, but you are mostly correct about the game thus far.

Positives
4. Different ships to fly, again Bernd wtf were you smoking during X-Rebirth.

Most people just choose an OP ship and sit in it for the rest of their game time, that's what Egosoft was aiming for with the single pilotable Skunk in Rebirth - the most OP ship the universe has to offer. Heck, even now I only sit in a Nemesis all time in X4 which is basically a Paranidified Skunk.
You could still get in your bigger ships for immersion.

Negatives
3.The ship DESIGNS...There is nothing distinctive or awe-inspiring, with the exception off the paint jobs everything looks like plastic toys, not space ships, especially the Paranid Destroyers.

While I do not disagree here, I feel like I have to point out the almost impossible task the visual designers were introduced to: modular ship parts. They had to create ships that fit their original racial narrative yet still support the cockpit/engine/shield/weapon modules. Spice that up with time and money constraints and you get X4. Which is not the best, but hey, I'm personally glad they've returned to the X-BtF/X2 style designs.

4.Weapons and Customisation: Wtf happened...In X3 you had a crazy roster of weaponry, customizable turrets, and sensible turret distribution, In X4 we have the most generic, uninspired weapons.

Simplified/generalised gameplay. The overcomplicated weapon/missile arsenal in X3TC/AP's ships was a turn-off. There were so many weapons that you lost track which does what and what ship supports that. Furthermore, X-Rebirth complicated things further with fantasy weapon names and main weapon-turret differences.

X4's weapon arsenal is streamlined, although somewhat boring.
[/quote]

6.Stations art style. In Previous X games it was clear what a station was just by looking at it, The spinning cylinder of an argon trading station, the OTAS HQ. In X4 the stations are generic to look at, each stations looking remarkably similar to the last.

I strongly suggest you try out Rebirth, come back, and then make a statement about station design complexity.

7.Wrecks....Egosoft, the wrecks are the worst art asset in the game, it's just an awfully poor effort, Such bad quality, I would rather not have. Especially as they serve no purpose..At least let us salvage them for parts or hull plates ect.

I would say that the presence of wrecks have brought us closer to the salvager profession and salvager ships.

8.Station Interiors. Again such low effort and wasted development time, You guys used to make great space games, stick to what you know and what your budget can manage...You have very poor internal station artists.It feels like an early 2000 MMO hub area, functional but not worth spending time in.

I think it's not the interrior design that's weak, but the lack of play feature(s). We get a few useful rooms which are there for hacking the given station and that's about it (and these are pretty much cheesed into the landing platform modules).
I personally wish that I could visit the bar, talk to NPCs and pick-up missions from them, pay them for spicy information. Visit the habitat area to save the game. Go to the workshop area to modify my ship. Etc-etc, I M M E R S I O N.
This specific feature was brought down to a minimum after the backlash Egosoft had recieved for X-Rebirth (the forced walking and annoying minigames). However I do believe it could be done right and the results would be nothing but pleasing.

10. I genuinely don't know why they made such a change to the X-Universe...but its no longer the series I lost 1000s of hours to.

I presume you are talking about the X3-era X-universe, which was not bad by itself but you are painting it with nostalgia. By the time of AP, the game was filled with so much content (ships, weapons, sectors, you name it) that it had to be brought down and rethought. The result is what you see here and with Rebirth: less content, but the content you do get is a lot more detailed that X3 could offer. Or at least that's the general idea behind the change.

11. Nearly forgot The EVA Suit, the whole experience is atrocious, the sound design to the controls are godawful.

Just press backspace. I personally would totally remove that feature but hey, I think that's what your problem source.

To conclude, let me say that I desperately want to enjoy X4, But it's just not catching me like the previous games.

I too, am like that, but for different reasons. One big point that should to be addressed as a content patch (not as a DLC!!) is the immersion. How? I'm not entirely sure myself but something is missing that was still present in Rebirth but I don't feel it in X4. I could brainstorm up a random list, however it's not going to happen now.

[Axeface]

I do think that its weird that we are in a seat though, it should just be a suit with thrusters.

On the contrary. Having thrusters on a fixed attachment (like jetpack, or, in this case, a seat) makes it easy to control center of mass and thus thrust direction. Without such control, you'd always tend to spin no matter which direction you thrust. Having thrusters directly on the suit would require pilot to wave arms and legs, which would only complicate matters. Then again, it's a game. But people are crying for immersion, and that seat is actually it

Nasa discontinued use of these things in the 80's. In X4 we are surrounded by spaceships with advanced propulsion systems, anti gravity technology and teleportation. The idea that people that live in space in the 29th century and get in and out of spaceships all day long would use a massive bulky seat with thrusters is just laughable. The thing in game even looks like the one nasa made, in the 1980's, come on. The 'issues' you raise could be avoided in a thousand different ways if any thought was actually put into it.
Thinking about it, we should be able to manouver much better in eva. Maybe ego should add another upgrade to our suit thats a whole new way to get around. The whole suit upgrade 'system' was actually touted as a cool thing before the game was released... what we got (buying 4 things from an npc) is a joke.

[radcapricorn]

In X4 we are surrounded by spaceships with advanced propulsion systems, anti gravity technology and teleportation.

Exactly. As far as I understand the idea, ship computers come with stabilization tech built-in (i.e. flight assist). For some reason, the suit doesn't. I don't disagree that this is dubious at best (it's not like accelerometers are bulky). I'm just thinking within those rules, is all.

[surferx]

I do think that its weird that we are in a seat though, it should just be a suit with thrusters.

On the contrary. Having thrusters on a fixed attachment (like jetpack, or, in this case, a seat) makes it easy to control center of mass and thus thrust direction. Without such control, you'd always tend to spin no matter which direction you thrust. Having thrusters directly on the suit would require pilot to wave arms and legs, which would only complicate matters. Then again, it's a game. But people are crying for immersion, and that seat is actually it

Nasa discontinued use of these things in the 80's. In X4 we are surrounded by spaceships with advanced propulsion systems, anti gravity technology and teleportation. The idea that people that live in space in the 29th century and get in and out of spaceships all day long would use a massive bulky seat with thrusters is just laughable. The thing in game even looks like the one nasa made, in the 1980's, come on. The 'issues' you raise could be avoided in a thousand different ways if any thought was actually put into it.
Thinking about it, we should be able to manouver much better in eva. Maybe ego should add another upgrade to our suit thats a whole new way to get around. The whole suit upgrade 'system' was actually touted as a cool thing before the game was released... what we got (buying 4 things from an npc) is a joke.

You are also equipped with a repair laser, hand laser, bomb launcher (for which you're carrying an arsenal of bombs; EMP and explosive,) and a scanner. You are going to carry all this in a backpack that is already packed with thrusters and oxygen?

[edit for correct quote]

[Derp]

All this comparing the vanilla X game as it is now to rose-tinted memories of fully-matured and heavily modded previous games, I just don't get.

Am I the only one who actually remembers previous X games? They're great games at the end of their lifespans, but they're all buggy piles of crap when they come out. All of them. X3 sucked. It needed TC and AP before it started approaching halfway decent, and Litcube to actually get there. X:R was a straight-up dumpster fire. The very best advice I ever received about the X series was to play the main campaign once for the story, and then start a new game without touching it because something will have been irretrievably broken.

X4 is more complete than any of the previous X games have been at this stage. Sure, there's stuff that needs finishing, or that I think should have been done differently. Mostly there's already mods for that, and the rest will get there. Egosoft's been doing Early Access right since before Early Access was a thing. They don't do shovelware. Even an obvious stillbirth like XR got two expansions and a ton of patching until at the end it was a damn fine game, when it would have been much easier to cut and run.

So, cool your jets. It'll get there.

[BattleXer]

One of my biggest gripes with X4 after playing for around a 120 hrs or so is actually with the map. Or rather the fact that you spend the majority of your game time looking at it.

I do appreciate the fact that it's your one-stop-shop for all your management needs. But it is just so depressing sitting in the cockpit of your spaceship or standing at a window in your own space station and not being able to take in the environment around you. No, you are looking at a black screen with a whole bunch of neon graphs and icons and spreadsheets. And that is the game. Because the map is its beating heart. And you can't get anything done without consulting it. Which is sad. And while I'm ranting, I absolutely hate the floating menus that obstruct each other and all other information, unless you filter out everything except one or two items.

Anyhow, I would have liked to access all or some of this information in my cockpit screen. I would have liked to be able to interact with objects in space in a more contextual and intuitive way, by for example right-clicking on the space station in front of me and find out what kind of wares are being offered and sought. Or right-clicking onto the spaceship in front of me, which belong s to me, and access all its relevant data like crew, cargo, current orders, etc. and change them there and then, rather than having to dive back into the map, find it in a list, open a million tabs and sort through them. See, this is where floating menus might have been actually useful.

Regardless - what I'm getting at is that it is just sad that all the relevant information and interaction with the universe are buried in the black hole that is the map.
It takes you out of the space game, out of your cockpit and out of the immersion of being in space and sticks you into a black room with spreadsheets and graphs and annoying semi-transparent menus.

That's where my enjoyment really gets severely hampered.

[Nort The Fragrent]

I am not here to bag Es, as I have run out of demonstrative remarks.

I am now in space hibernation, i don't bother playing the game now, as theres nothing to do, discover, or take my interest. The foundation was cool when wet, but now the concrete has set, I am waiting for the building to begin. And that could take years at this rate.

Wake me up in 2025, they might have woken up to the needs of their paying customers, and given us what they sold us.

Zz

[BattleXer]

Sorry if I came across as bagging ES - My previous post wasn't meant as criticism of the company or even the product as a whole.
More like constructive criticism tinged with a hint of frustration...