Trump

[Vertigo 7]

You know, there's one thing that republicans are being awfully short sighted on when it comes to Trump. Let's pretend for a minute that Trump is able to get away with everything he's doing. He's invincible, above the law, etc. etc., republicans are not always going to have a president in the oval office... unless they're planning on completely tossing the constitution out of the window and install a life long dictator. Anyway, they're creating some seriously dangerous precedents that the next president, and the one after that, and the one after that, et al., can use to circumvent congressional oversight, not to mention the law in general.

They're giving the president, whoever, that may be, the power to do whatever they want. Is that what they want to see when the next democrat gets elected? How's it gonna shake out for them when that president declares gun control a national emergency and orders the justice department to confiscate every firearm in civilian hands? Or if that president declares health care a national emergency and re-appropriates tax payer money to fund social insurance? On and on it can go. Or if that president flagrantly breaks laws that if anyone else did would land them in jail, but that president then points back to Trump and says "oh no, you said that the president can't commit crimes."

We never expected to see a president declare immigration a national emergency, but here we are, despite the facts and Trump himself indicating there is no emergency. What's next is anybody's guess but do you really want to see that kind of power in the oval office?

[matthewfarmery]

You know, there's one thing that republicans are being awfully short sited on when it comes to Trump. Let's pretend for a minute that Trump is able to get away with everything he's doing. He's invincible, above the law, etc. etc., republicans are not always going to have a president in the oval office... unless they're planning on completely tossing the constitution out of the window and install a life long dictator. Anyway, they're creating some seriously dangerous precedents that the next president, and the one after that, and the one after that, et al., can use to circumvent congressional oversight, not to mention the law in general.

They're giving the president, whoever, that may be, the power to do whatever they want. Is that what they want to see when the next democrat gets elected? How's it gonna shake out for them when that president declares gun control a national emergency and orders the justice department to confiscate every firearm in civilian hands? Or if that president declares health care a national emergency and re-appropriates tax payer money to fund social insurance? On and on it can go. Or if that president flagrantly breaks laws that if anyone else did would land them in jail, but that president then points back to Trump and says "oh no, you said that the president can't commit crimes."

We never expected to see a president declare immigration a national emergency, but here we are, despite the facts and Trump himself indicating there is no emergency. What's next is anybodies guess but do you really want to see that kind of power in the oval office?

Indeed, and when a Democrat president starts to act out of line, then every republican will be demanding that the next president (or after) should be put in his place, but democrats will remind them of trump, and say "why didn't you put Trump in his place when you had the chance?"

I think the USA will have to rethink its whole Constitution / founding fathers and ditch the lot. I mean, if one president can get away with what the founding fathers TRIED to prevent, then what good is the Constitution? This could very well might have to go to the US supreme court, not sure if the senate as it stands will do much, even though they should be the ones to do something about this.

All in all, if the republications dont deal with trump, then they might as well throw away all those laws, as they will be helping to break them.

[Vertigo 7]

Indeed, and when a Democrat president starts to act out of line, then every republican will be demanding that the next president (or after) should be put in his place, but democrats will remind them of trump, and say "why didn't you put Trump in his place when you had the chance?"

I think the USA will have to rethink its whole Constitution / founding fathers and ditch the lot. I mean, if one president can get away with what the founding fathers TRIED to prevent, then what good is the Constitution? This could very well might have to go to the US supreme court, not sure if the senate as it stands will do much, even though they should be the ones to do something about this.

All in all, if the republications dont deal with trump, then they might as well throw away all those laws, as they will be helping to break them.

Well that's the thing. There's actually no mechanism for the judicial branch to enforce their decisions/opinions on the executive branch, especially the president.

The only thing that can be done to curtail a president's illicit behavior is impeachment, which means articles of impeachment are drafted and then voted on by the house of representatives. If it passes by simple majority, the president is then impeached and charged with a crime(s), and then the senate will hold a trial that is overseen by the chief justice of the supreme court on whether or not to convict and/or remove from office. Both conviction and removal have to achieve a 2/3rds majority to be successful.

That's it. There is no other legal recourse to tell a president no.

Most every president in the past has honored the judgments of the supreme court, but they were not obligated to do so. While Trump did eventually back down on the SCOTUS decision to not include citizenship questions on the upcoming national census, he did outright say he was going to ignore SCOTUS on their ruling after they said it wasn't allowed.

Now what the SCOTUS can do is rule executive orders and/or laws passed by congress and signed by the president are unconstitutional and have them struck down, thus invalidating either.

I don't think we need to scrub the whole governmental body. But I do think we need to have new laws, and maybe an amendment to Article II of the constitution to prevent this kind of abuse in the future. Maybe even an amendment to Article I to prevents willful ignorance in congress to overlook wrong doings of the president for political reasons.

It really is sad that we've come to this. It's a total disgrace to have elected members of the senate, who have a responsibility to keep the president from overstepping, turning a blind eye because of party loyalty. Both the president and many in congress have taken their positions for granted.

In truth, I don't think either the republican or democrat political systems serve this country adequately. Maybe that's what needs to be wiped off the board and we build something new there. I have no idea what, but I do know that the current role of politics in this country is too ugly and too volatile to do us much if any good.

[Bishop149]

You know, there's one thing that republicans are being awfully short sighted on when it comes to Trump. Let's pretend for a minute that Trump is able to get away with everything he's doing. He's invincible, above the law, etc. etc., republicans are not always going to have a president in the oval office... unless they're planning on completely tossing the constitution out of the window and install a life long dictator. Anyway, they're creating some seriously dangerous precedents that the next president, and the one after that, and the one after that, et al., can use to circumvent congressional oversight, not to mention the law in general.

This kinda already happened.
At least some of what Trump is able to do was enabled by the reforms Obama made to the executive. Not to mention the far more aggressive foreign policy he enacted.

[Vertigo 7]

You know, there's one thing that republicans are being awfully short sighted on when it comes to Trump. Let's pretend for a minute that Trump is able to get away with everything he's doing. He's invincible, above the law, etc. etc., republicans are not always going to have a president in the oval office... unless they're planning on completely tossing the constitution out of the window and install a life long dictator. Anyway, they're creating some seriously dangerous precedents that the next president, and the one after that, and the one after that, et al., can use to circumvent congressional oversight, not to mention the law in general.

This kinda already happened.
At least some of what Trump is able to do was enabled by the reforms Obama made to the executive. Not to mention the far more aggressive foreign policy he enacted.

Apples and oranges (no pun intended), my dude. Obama didn't carry on as if the rule of law didn't apply to him. Neither did Obama make insulting allies while embracing enemies a mission statement for his administration. Obama made it a point of his time in office to work with other world leaders.

What has enabled Trump was the faulty assumption of the founding fathers that no individual with the character flaws that Trump exhibits would ever be a serious candidate for the presidency. The electoral college was supposed to be a fail safe to prevent someone like Trump from being elected. Clearly, that doesn't work. The only other protection granted by the constitution, in case one slips through the cracks, is impeachment.

What sets Trump apart from almost every other president in US history is a thing called honor. That is a concept completely foreign to him. For example, the "national emergency" declaration was designed for the president to re-appropriate funds for true emergencies, like recovery from natural disasters, attacks on US soil, and so forth. Trump seized on a legal loop hole with a vague definition that allowed him to declare an emergency where none existed. No other president would have done that or attempted to do so.

We are supposed to trust that the person elected to such a high office will exercise the powers of that office for the benefit of the US. Not for the benefit of democrats or republicans, and especially not for personal benefit, and most definitely not for the benefit of an enemy of the US.

Democrats will argue that republican presidents don't consider their interests and republicans will argue the same about democrat presidents. However, what we're seeing today is someone that has somehow seized control of the republican party and distorted it into a mechanism that will justify his every action, no matter how self serving it is. Where in the past, both republican and democrat presidents were willing to compromise to an extent.

There's not one living past president today, not one, that has stood behind Trump. Think about that for a minute. Carter, Clinton, G. W. Bush, and Obama, all have publicly stated their contempt of Trump and have 0 desire to be in the same building as him, yet they are all willing to speak jointly with each other. 32 years of presidency to Trump's 3, and they all have similar feelings about him. Everyone is going to have their opinions about them and, sure, they all have their flaws, but at the end of the day, they were all at the very minimum, level headed, half way decent people. Trump can't even come close to a comparison.

[Bishop149]

I don't disagree with anything you have written there, however, I still think that it was an the glaring flaw in Obama to strengthening the power of the executive (although I understand his reasons for doing so) was that that power would be inherited by his successors to force through more malign policies than: "I'd like to provide my citizens with a basic level of healthcare coverage".

In other news

Trump makes foreign policy decision to benefit turkey and throwing the US's allies against ISIS under a bus called "probable ethic cleansing".

Edited: In 2012 his daughter tweeted the following: "Thank you Prime Minister Erdogan for joining us yesterday to celebrate the launch of #TrumpTowers Istanbul!"
His daughter BTW who has made (along with her husband) $82M during their first year working for the White House.

In 2015 Mr Trump said in an interview: "I have a little conflict of interest, because I have a major, major building in Istanbul. . "

It's just FLAGRANT corruption, I have no idea how he a) gets away with it or b) has the nerve to accuse Joe Biden of any damn thing.
I miss the day when corrupt politicians at least had the good grace to try and hide it.

[Vertigo 7]

I don't disagree with anything you have written there, however, I still think that it was an the glaring flaw in Obama to strengthening the power of the executive (although I understand his reasons for doing so) was that that power would be inherited by his successors to force through more malign policies than: "I'd like to provide my citizens with a basic level of healthcare coverage".

In other news

Trump makes foreign policy decision to benefit turkey and throwing the US's allies against ISIS under a bus called "probable ethic cleansing".

Almost simultaneously his daughter tweets the following: "Thank you Prime Minister Erdogan for joining us yesterday to celebrate the launch of #TrumpTowers Istanbul!"

His daughter BTW who has made (along with her husband) $82M during their first year working for the White House.

It's just FLAGRANT corruption, I have no idea how he a) gets away with it or b) has the nerve to accuse Joe Biden of any damn thing.
I miss the day when corrupt politicians at least had the good grace to try and hide it.

Holy shit.... this ass hole needs to burn.

*edit

Wait, that tweet was from 2012.

[RegisterMe]

It's quite a contrast to our "cash for questions" scandal, when a few grubby twenty pound notes in a brown envelope changed hands, isn't it.

[felter]

Almost simultaneously his daughter tweets the following: "Thank you Prime Minister Erdogan for joining us yesterday to celebrate the launch of #TrumpTowers Istanbul!"

Bish you need to get your eyes tested and look at dates, that Ivanka post was made by her on 20 April 2012 not yesterday.

But once again Trump and America once again showing that they cannot be trusted by any of their allie, as they throw another allies under a bus, probably for some kind of backhander, how does this Make America Great Again.

[Vertigo 7]

But once again Trump and America once again showing that they cannot be trusted by any of their allie, as they throw another allies under a bus, probably for some kind of backhander, how does this Make America Great Again.

It's appalling. This is exactly what Russia wants. I would bet my left arm that Russia will have an increased backing of Assad and Turkey's forces will be crushed. Now we're heading back towards the treason side of things.

Even republican senators are piling on that this is a seriously bad idea. At least they have a line they're not willing cross, too bad its so far out there..

[Bishop149]

Almost simultaneously his daughter tweets the following: "Thank you Prime Minister Erdogan for joining us yesterday to celebrate the launch of #TrumpTowers Istanbul!"

Bish you need to get your eyes tested and look at dates, that Ivanka post was made by her on 20 April 2012 not yesterday.

But once again Trump and America once again showing that they cannot be trusted by any of their allie, as they throw another allies under a bus, probably for some kind of backhander, how does this Make America Great Again.

Shit, that'll teach me to check better eh?
I was the victim of some "spurious reporting", entirely my fault. . . . . I will amend the post.

I suspect it remains a pretty clear (if less dramatic) conflict of interest, this decision lacks any and all honour even if it weren't for the personal enrichment angle.

Edit: Looked into it a bit more and honestly **** knows what Trumps motivations are, its a truly bizarre decision that seems to have come rapidly of the back of another phone call with the relevant foreign leader (Erdogan).
It's also hardly out of the blue, see this article from 2016: https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-fg-tr ... story.html
Putin and Erdogan have clearly been planning how best to play Trump to their advantage ever since he got elected (with some help from one of those two parties)

[Vertigo 7]

Edit: Looked into it a bit more and honestly **** knows what Trumps motivations are, its a truly bizarre decision that seems to have come rapidly of the back of another phone call with the relevant foreign leader (Erdogan).
It's also hardly out of the blue, see this article from 2016: https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-fg-tr ... story.html
Putin and Erdogan have clearly been planning how best to play Trump to their advantage ever since he got elected (with some help from one of those two parties)

With everything Trump has done, there has to be more to this than a rationale of "cost" that he's pitching. He has no one on his side on this other than Erdogan, and likely Putin.

[RegisterMe]

I would bet my left arm that Russia will have an increased backing of Assad and Turkey's forces will be crushed.

Naaah. Don't forget that Turkey has just bought the S-400, and been suspended from the F-35 programme a result.

Don't get me wrong, Putin will be laughing his socks off and rubbing his hands in glee, but he can achieve far more just by messing things around and letting Trump **** things up than he can from being seen to be too overt eg you wonder what message Israel, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Iraq will take from watching the Kurds get thrown under a bus.

[Vertigo 7]

I would bet my left arm that Russia will have an increased backing of Assad and Turkey's forces will be crushed.

Naaah. Don't forget that Turkey has just bought the S-400, and been suspended from the F-35 programme a result.

Don't get me wrong, Putin will be laughing his socks off and rubbing his hands in glee, but he can achieve far more just by messing things around and letting Trump **** things up than he can from being seen to be too overt eg you wonder what message Israel, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Iraq will take from watching the Kurds get thrown under a bus.

I forgot about that fighter switcheroo. Regardless, you have a very good point. Putin does love him some indirect manipulation. The rest of the middle eastern countries will see it as open season on each other.

In other news, I found this oped interesting. There's some very good points raised by the writer, but I think, though, Trump swallowing a pardon would be tough. The simple reason being because to be pardoned, one has to admit guilt. And it doesn't erase the crimes from his record.

[Vertigo 7]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 9821388801

"I, in my great and unmatched wisdom"

Just when you think the ego can't get any bigger, there it goes.

*edit

And not to gloss over the fact that he just threatened to annihilate the economy of a NATO ally. come on, republicans, why do you support this deranged lunatic?!?!

[BugMeister]

- corruption?
- what corruption?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Us32ZBdQjjU

- how the Russians created fake support for Trump, and denigrated the Democratic Party..
- how Trump manipulates the language of politics..

- he's gone off his nut, if he thinks that throwing a tantrum will divert investigation into his "personal" financial affairs..
- total transparency is the price one pays when taking up the office of the presidency of the United States of America..

[RegisterMe]

I don't get it, why would somebody like Rick Perry throw themselves under the bus? Are they expecting a pardon at the end of it?

EDIT: A brief tldr of the Ukraine thing:-

0. Attempted cover up.
1. What? I didn't do it.
2. I didn't do anything wrong.
3. China please do it too.
4. Rick Perry told me to do it.

[BugMeister]

Yikes, even the Mooch is starting to make sense..!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yoriw0ibG9c

[Vertigo 7]

I don't get it, why would somebody like Rick Perry throw themselves under the bus? Are they expecting a pardon at the end of it?

I don't see how he's doing that. He said he wanted Trump to contact Ukraine to begin talks on energy security, did not once mention anything about Biden. It sounded to me, that Perry was throwing Trump under the bus.

[Vertigo 7]

Uh oh. Now the TV evangelists are starting to pull away from Trump over the Syria disaster. I believe we are witnessing the beginning of the end for Trump.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... Syria.html

Come on, preacher Pat! Raise prayer shields again to protect the Kurds!