W11 HOPEFULL OR ?

[Vertigo 7]

I din't say URIs are protcols, you didn't read me. Don't twist my words.

Oh?

A) that's not a protocol,

Yes, it is a protocol. Edge implemenst a set of rules how to process it. We don't know how exactly they look like.

Kind of hard to misinterpret that. Unless you're saying "Yes, it is" means something different wherever you're from.

You brought up URIs saying they are aliases, referring to a post that linked a text "Windows 11 blocks Edge browser competitors from opening links".

Yes I did. Because an alias is exactly how it is designed. Again, it's a short cut to the 5 or 6 folder deep path to the executable. Told ya, the article was BS. You keep treating it's the gospel truth, without any first hand knowledge or experience, I might add.

That text stated that the protocol microsoft-edge:// is not redirectable to https:// any more in its second paragraph.

I don't care what the text stated. "microsoft-edge:https://dictionary.com" damn sure opens the website for me in Edge.

You said "that's not a protocol, its a URI call that's an alias for the edge executable".

Yes I did. You and Terre both have repeated that microsoft-edge:// is a protocol. You're both wrong.

So, I understood you saying https:// is not a protocol but an URI. You may have meant something different then from what that text was talking about, in which case you might want to clarify which URIs you are talking about, in contrast to the mentioned protocols the text was about, which doesn't contain URI at all. If that makes sense.

I never ONCE said that.

Anyway, the URI is not an alias per se, it is a rather complex construct to be further processed. In order to process it, your OS fakes a program call for you for anything microsodt-edge:// and leaves you without a choice which program to call. Do the same 'magic' you showed above with chrome, firefox, opera, etc., it will not work if the sources are to be trusted, or it will need some tedious clicks.

da fuq ever. Chrome has its own URI call and other browsers likely do as well. Even if they don't, people can create their own registry keys to make them if they wish and know how. Either way all it's doing is passing the substring to the executable.

The reason of keeping people from choosing freely is, as has been written sveral times, is stuffing people with ads and "web experience" and narrowing their access to information, which some do not want to be exposed to.

/yawn

You keep accusing MS of limiting choices without knowing wtf you're talking about. You haven't touched Windows in 7 years, by your own admission. 7 years ago, you could install any browser you wished. You can still do that today. Don't know how many times you have to be told that for it to sink in. At this point, it's nothing but willful ignorance on your part.

Once again, I have no problem with people accepting that, and I ask you to not have a problem with people rejecting that behaviour, can we agree on that ?

Yeah, except you're just making bs up or parroting some bs you read. This behavior exists in your head, not in reality.

[Imperial Good]

Worth noting that Edge is basically Chrome with a different UI wrapper. The only reason to choose one over the other is if you prefer how one does something over the other since fundamentally they are both as secure, both as performant and both as correct at rendering. Only Safari and FireFox, and possibly some other smaller ones, are fundamentally different engines.

Why Windows 11 tries to force Edge usage I am not sure. I suspect it is similar to how Mac OS tries to force Safari usage. By keeping them part of the OS you can create a cohesive experience that can be kept up to date and secure. As opposed to Fire Fox where the user might choose to never update it.

[red assassin]

Good lord, guys, nuance is a thing.

Having a URL scheme to open a specific app, e.g. Edge, rather than the generic handler for a protocol is a perfectly sensible thing to do. It's entirely possible to define shortcuts (.desktop files) in Linux which open particular apps rather than asking for the generic handler for a protocol as well. However, Microsoft use this scheme for things which are in no way actually doing something which would require Edge, like web results from the search bar, which is pretty underhanded. Additionally, once Edge is opened, it'll pop up a modal asking you to switch your default browser to Edge if it isn't currently, and if you try and switch the default browser (in current Win 10) away from Edge it'll pop up a dialogue objecting to it, which you have to click the non-default option to get past. Chrome doesn't currently seem to be able to automatically change the default either, it just pops up the Settings page (which is the one that complains when you try and switch) - Edge can automatically switch you back though. I haven't tested Win 11 in particular, but Microsoft have certainly been making it more and more irritating to switch from Edge over the last few Win 10 feature updates and it is a dick move. That said, Edge isn't as aggressive about stealing your personal data as Chrome is, and it certainly doesn't "flood you with advertising" - its behaviour is very similar to all the other browsers (which default to home page/new tab pages carrying content the browser vendor controls or is paid for).

While phishing is an issue on all OSs, executing a file sent via email is not as simple as a click on Linux (or Mac), because its execution right must be set by the user and files are not executed by their ending.

Yeah, Windows won't just run an executable from an email or web download either. You have to bypass a number of scary security warnings, and more if it fails reputation and/or code signing checks. The vast majority of email/downloadable malware distribution uses either a lure document that walks a user through turning off the security warnings to run something or enable macros; some sort of exploit to gain execution; or is bundled with a legitimate application installer or similar. All of those tricks work just fine on Linux and macOS as well.

"installers are signed", it is probably a key that is signed, because checking a signature on the whole installer (GB size ?) would take quite some time. I mean, a long time if there is a somewhat relevant key involved. Or has windows a different methods than public-key for decryption ? Do people actually use that feature ?

Signatures on Windows are implemented the same way as they are literally everywhere else which does message signing: you hash the message and sign the hash. Windows uses the same PKI as TLS as the root of trust (you just need a certificate with code signing rather than server flags enabled) and checks and enforces code signing at runtime. (You can configure accepted certificates and what to do on signature check failure, along with other controls on what applications can run, e.g. if you're an enterprise which wants to allow-list specific apps and anything signed by your enterprise code signing certs, and block anything else from executing.) This is a stricter check than Linux, which (for all major distros) performs signature checking at the point of installing a package from a package manager, but not at runtime. On Linux you accept a repository key at the point you enable a repository (and there's not really a good way of verifying this, other than the ones preinstalled with your OS), whereas on Windows (by default) the vendor has to pass a CA's verification checks and purchase a code signing cert, but the user doesn't have to install the key themselves, so there's pros and cons of either model. Just checking the hash of a downloaded file buys you nothing security-wise, because the hash you're looking at isn't sent to you via a different mechanism to the actual installer package - you need it to be signed and trust to the signing key to be established via some other means.

What is actually the point of updating from 10 to 11, other than MS threatening to end support in ~5 years ?

Why would one spend time and maybe money (idk, read it costs 200 bucks, but maybe an upgrade is cheaper or else customers run away) on the 11 instead of 10 ?

Microsoft have never switched off free updates from Windows 7/8 to 10 so it seems unlikely they'll disable free updates to 11 either. You update for the same reason you update literally any other software: new features and continuing security support.

Ok, back to my Linux From Scratch.

This is a terrible idea for security - distros have large teams responsible for shipping security updates promptly; you don't. Keeping a LFS system up to date is effectively impossible. As a learning exercise in an isolated VM, sure, go for it.

[mr.WHO]

Microsoft have never switched off free updates from Windows 7/8 to 10 so it seems unlikely they'll disable free updates to 11 either. You update for the same reason you update literally any other software: new features and continuing security support.

Yeah, two years ago I update my old laptop from Win7 to Win10 using original Win7 key. To my suprise the Laptop boot and ran better than on Win7 (and it was update without cleaning the system).
I think that with Win10 support dropping in 2025, Microsoft will be interested in people updating to Win11, so they will keep the free update as well.

The only limiting factos is hardware requirement, that will keep most of a few years old old equipment from updating to Win11.

Personally I'm encoraged by Win11 reception and feedback, but I don't like trying anything on release (thanks to AAA game industry).
Thus I'll wait a few more months, but I plan to update both my current laptops (that fortunately meet hardware requirements) to Win11 next year.

[Terre]

Personally I'm encoraged by Win11 reception and feedback, but I don't like trying anything on release (thanks to AAA game industry).
Thus I'll wait a few more months, but I plan to update both my current laptops (that fortunately meet hardware requirements) to Win11 next year.

I'm waiting until at least March, the move will be based on curiosity rather than need.

But when I do move, may give the following a try.
ThisIsWin11 looks an interesting tool to get get rid of the pre-installed crap and other stuff.

https://github.com/builtbybel/ThisIsWin11

As always, use at your own risk.

[pjknibbs]

I'm waiting until at least March, the move will be based on curiosity rather than need.

The only one of the five PCs I use on a regular basis that *can* be upgraded to 11 is my main gaming PC, so I'm holding off for a while because (a) it's a Ryzen and there are still some issues with those and (b) you never get in on the ground floor of *any* new OS...better to wait for them to iro out the problems.

[Gavrushka]

When people are talking about choosing when to upgrade, does that mean they already have access to Win11, but are delaying installing?

I have a 'Features Update' available, but it's for me to choose to install, although for once it doesn't come under 'optional updates' as, umm, optional updates usually do. - It is titled Win10 version 21H2; is this some kind of precursor to Win11? I normally don't do other than wait for Windows to tell me 'reboot for update' and don't really have the technical ability to make an informed decision on this Features Update. Advice would be welcome.

I always feel a little uncomfortable posting on this kind of thread, as all I usually have to bring is my own naivety liberally sprinkled with stupidity.

[Vertigo 7]

The only one of the five PCs I use on a regular basis that *can* be upgraded to 11 is my main gaming PC, so I'm holding off for a while because (a) it's a Ryzen and there are still some issues with those and (b) you never get in on the ground floor of *any* new OS...better to wait for them to iro out the problems.

I've got 2. 1 i enrolled in the beta branch, and the other I enrolled in the dev branch.

Most of the back end changes were relatively minor from 10, like moving more of the legacy control panel functions into settings, new dx 12 features, and so forth. I felt pretty confident that any issues to moving were going to be minor, and that ended up being the case. Both branches have been stable and hasn't been any compatibility issues that I've run into with any software or hardware (but i don't use AMD anything =p)

Aside from the usual learning what's different in the UI any time the OS changes like that, it's been pretty rock solid. In fact, the OS feels even more responsive than 10 did. I was even shocked to see BIOS updates come down for my laptop through Windows Updates. No idea if that would have been offered in 10 or not but first time I've ever seen that happen. But it updated without a hitch.

The gaming experience has been great. I do like the auto HDR option that can be applied to non-HDR content, it does make a difference even if it's not "real" HDR.

I admit that I do prefer the tiled start menu to the one in 11 but it's not like I spend a lot of time looking at the start menu anyway so meh. But thats cosmetic and doesn't impact day to day usability. I still run all the things I could before upgrading and everything works as expected out of the box.

[Vertigo 7]

When people are talking about choosing when to upgrade, does that mean they already have access to Win11, but are delaying installing?

I have a 'Features Update' available, but it's for me to choose to install, although for once it doesn't come under 'optional updates' as, umm, optional updates usually do. - It is titled Win10 version 21H2; is this some kind of precursor to Win11? I normally don't do other than wait for Windows to tell me 'reboot for update' and don't really have the technical ability to make an informed decision on this Features Update. Advice would be welcome.

I always feel a little uncomfortable posting on this kind of thread, as all I usually have to bring is my own naivety liberally sprinkled with stupidity.

Feature updates are not the same as optional updates. 21H2 roll up includes some new 'features' for 10. no harm in updating to it. You can look at MS's web site for all the new stuff added in that but they've been adding feature updates to 10 for a while like that, semi annually. (2021 2nd half of the year)

[pjknibbs]

I have a 'Features Update' available, but it's for me to choose to install, although for once it doesn't come under 'optional updates' as, umm, optional updates usually do. - It is titled Win10 version 21H2; is this some kind of precursor to Win11? I normally don't do other than wait for Windows to tell me 'reboot for update' and don't really have the technical ability to make an informed decision on this Features Update. Advice would be welcome.

You need to run the Windows 11 compatibility checker from Microsoft's website, it sounds like there's something on the machine which prevents it being upgraded.

[Gavrushka]

I have a 'Features Update' available, but it's for me to choose to install, although for once it doesn't come under 'optional updates' as, umm, optional updates usually do. - It is titled Win10 version 21H2; is this some kind of precursor to Win11? I normally don't do other than wait for Windows to tell me 'reboot for update' and don't really have the technical ability to make an informed decision on this Features Update. Advice would be welcome.

You need to run the Windows 11 compatibility checker from Microsoft's website, it sounds like there's something on the machine which prevents it being upgraded.

I did run that some time ago, and started a thread about TPM issues, not realising it was something that simply needed enabling in the BIOS, which I've now done. - On my Windows Update screen, I have the constant joyous reminder from Microsoft that I am indeed Win 11 ready, with the further caveat that 'specific timing for when it will be offered can vary as we get it ready for you' so I guess I'm just waiting on Microsoft now.

So I think I just answered my own question.


And, Vertigo 7, thanks for that explanation.

[mr.WHO]

On my Windows Update screen, I have the constant joyous reminder from Microsoft that I am indeed Win 11 ready, with the further caveat that 'specific timing for when it will be offered can vary as we get it ready for you' so I guess I'm just waiting on Microsoft now.

It can take some time - on one of my laptops it became ready for download after 3 weeks since W11 release and on other it took 5 weeks.
The older laptop took longer to be ready for download, so I think they are gradually going from latest to oldest - given that you didn't had the TMP enabled by default indicates it's an older one.


When your machine will be set to be ready you should have an update icon in bottom-right, lust like normal update icon, but with blue dot, instead of orange.

[jlehtone]

Life is much easier when you are not "appearing on our list of approved CPUs."

[Terre]

Compatibility issues with Intel Smart Sound Technology drivers and Windows 11, as I read it, MS will not offer Windows 11 to affected machines.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/window ... 746msgdesc

[Terre]

I'm waiting until at least March, the move will be based on curiosity rather than need.

The only one of the five PCs I use on a regular basis that *can* be upgraded to 11 is my main gaming PC, so I'm holding off for a while because (a) it's a Ryzen and there are still some issues with those and (b) you never get in on the ground floor of *any* new OS...better to wait for them to iro out the problems.

Part of me is saying, I'm glad I didn't say March in which year. My Win10 machine is good, as is one of my Linux machines, but they are not changing over.

[Vertigo 7]

Compatibility issues with Intel Smart Sound Technology drivers and Windows 11, as I read it, MS will not offer Windows 11 to affected machines.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/window ... 746msgdesc

Really? that's what you read? Cuz I read it as it's on hold till the issue with the 2 listed driver versions is resolved and for users to contact their OEMs to get an updated driver.

Intel and Microsoft have found incompatibility issues with certain versions of drivers for Intel Smart Sound Technology (Intel SST) and Windows 11. Windows 11 devices with the affected Intel SST driver might receive an error with a blue screen. The affected driver will be named Intel® Smart Sound Technology (Intel® SST) Audio Controller under System Devices in Device Manager and have the file name IntcAudioBus.sys and a file version of 10.29.0.5152 and earlier or 10.30.0.5152 and earlier.

To safeguard your upgrade experience, we have applied a compatibility hold on devices with affected Intel SST drivers from being offered Windows 11. If your organization is using Update Compliance, the safeguard ID is 36899911.

Workaround: To mitigate the safeguard, you will need to check with your device manufacturer (OEM) to see if an updated driver is available and install it. This issue is resolved by updating the Intel® Smart Sound Technology drivers to a version 10.30.00.5714 and later or 10.29.00.5714 and later. Important: Later versions refer to just the last part of the version number. For addressing this issue, 10.30.x versions are not newer than 10.29.x versions. Once you have updated to a compatible version of the Intel® Smart Sound Technology drivers, you should be able to upgrade to Windows 11. Please note, if there are no other safeguards that affect your device, it can take up to 48 hours before the upgrade to Windows 11 is offered.

Next Steps: If you encounter this safeguard hold and an updated driver is not yet available, you will need to contact your device manufacturer (OEM) for more information.

Note We recommend that you do not attempt to manually upgrade using the Update now button or the Media Creation Tool until this issue has been resolved and the safeguard removed.

Why do you keep omitting key facts about these issues you're hunting for?

[Terre]

Compatibility issues with Intel Smart Sound Technology drivers and Windows 11, as I read it, MS will not offer Windows 11 to affected machines.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/window ... 746msgdesc

Really? that's what you read? Cuz I read it as it's on hold till the issue with the 2 listed driver versions is resolved and for users to contact their OEMs to get an updated driver.

So MS are, at this time, not offering Windows 11 to affected machines. The link is there for people to read.

Semantics, got to love it.

[Gavrushka]

Compatibility issues with Intel Smart Sound Technology drivers and Windows 11, as I read it, MS will not offer Windows 11 to affected machines.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/window ... 746msgdesc

Really? that's what you read? Cuz I read it as it's on hold till the issue with the 2 listed driver versions is resolved and for users to contact their OEMs to get an updated driver.

So MS are, at this time, not offering Windows 11 to affected machines. The link is there for people to read.

Is it as simple as checking your sound drivers in device manager to see if you're affected? I did a search for the miscreant file names too, and it returned zero local results.

It was suggested earlier Microsoft's upgrade path might be starting with the most recent machines, but I've a 10th gen I7, less than a year old, and am still waiting.

[Redvers Ganderpoke]

My wireless problems with WiFi have resolved themselves. Not sure if it was a driver update or the new controller / AP firmware on my unifi kit as they happened around the same time

[Terre]

It was suggested earlier Microsoft's upgrade path might be starting with the most recent machines, but I've a 10th gen I7, less than a year old, and am still waiting.

It's as simple as waiting for the offer of changing from 10 to 11, just let them come to you.

There is their pchealthcheck app, which my machine defences will not allow to run, available, you can give that a go, see what it says.
https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/windows ... ealthcheck

Out of curiosity, I had a look at the CVE database for known Windows 11 security vulnerabilities.
https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerabilit ... ws-11.html

Microsoft Installer might have issues updating or repairing apps
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/window ... 759msgdesc

November 22, 2021—KB5007262 (OS Build 22000.348) Preview
The list of fixes is long.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/top ... c920253aee