Random News not worthy of own thread

[Jericho]

What's even more interesting is that EA assured their shareholders that pulling the lootbox system wouldn't affect their earnings. So, those times they argued that they *have* to put stuff like this in games because they're so expensive to make? Cobblers, as we all really knew, but it's nice to have it confirmed by the people themselves!

What are they supposed to say? "Yeah... This is really going to screw us..."
If it wouldn't affect their earnings, then they must have expected zero people to buy them.

They just produced a report with figures selectively pulled from their backside, just like they did with everything else, based on previous titles and how popular FPS are etc etc.

If they ever get around to making the multiplayer progression based on playing a class, and rewarding the winners etc, then I might think about buying. As it stands, their implementation of loot-boxes for progression is disgraceful, and I'm glad that they are being investigated.

[Jericho]

On another subject that is probably not worth its own thread, ( I don't want to start another political thread, ) When will the point come that the UK's NHS is considered no longer fit for purpose, in the safe hands of the Torries?

I ask, because today I was told it would be almost two weeks before I could speak with my GP, via a telephone consultation! I was then told that it would probably be the new year before I could speak to her face to face!

Just how bad does it have to get before the Conservative sly way of destroying the NHS works?

I am told told by several nurses, ( not least my long serving sister, ) that morale within the NHS is very close to rock bottom, with many of her colleagues, looking for pastures new, abroad.

I know a lot of people in the NHS (and a lot of teachers), and yes, that pretty much sums it up for both sets.

But... I got pneumonia last year, and was about 1 hour from dying as I couldn't breath and my temperature was so high that I wouldn't have woken up if I'd fallen asleep. The hospital staff could not have been more friendly and helpful. The followup care from my local GP (Weekly visit to sign off work) and further followup when I still couldn't breath properly months later, both at the GP and hospital were outstanding...

Where-as my wife got treated like a time waster when she had a bad chest... To be fair it was just a cough, but the triage nurse on the phone didn't know that. 2 years ago she had to go private (we get private coverage through work, but need referral from GP etc) to get CTscan as the NHS would never sanction it for the pain in her jaw (Turns out a nerve issue).


I don't think the torries are secretly dismantling the NHS... I just think they are only ever looking at the short term of cutting a few hundred million £ here and there and it all mounts up. And thanks to brexit we'll probably lose a lot of foreign staff which will make it worse.

Thankfully the budget this week was all roses!!!

[pjknibbs]

What are they supposed to say? "Yeah... This is really going to screw us..."

Well, frankly, yes. This isn't them trying to pull the wool over the eyes of a few million gullible gamers, this is them talking to their own shareholders about important financial issues, and they could get sued to oblivion if they lie (or even go to prison for fraud). So, yes, they already knew they were going to make a good profit even without the lootboxes, which means the lootboxes are simple greed, as everybody suspected.

[mrbadger]

The NHS may not be great, in fact yes I will admit it tends to suck pretty hard in some places.

But I got full post brain damage rehab that was so good I was back at work 8 months later, and it didn't cost me a penny.

That would not happen in the US, I'd have lost my house and still be spending my life in debt.

Not all of my care was great, some of it was awful, but in the rehab centre itself I had great care, and wonderful staff. If a money raising charity thing comes up for me, I will be raising money to go there.

The nurse in charge of my care while I was there is now my community epilepsy nurse, so I have that too, someone who's known my condition right back to before I could walk again.

Is the NHS perfect? Nope.

Is it still something to be grateful for? Hell yes.

I still get irritated by my local services, which aren't great, but I don't like to complain to the staff on the ground, never that.

I hate it when I see people who do.

[Jericho]

What are they supposed to say? "Yeah... This is really going to screw us..."

Well, frankly, yes. This isn't them trying to pull the wool over the eyes of a few million gullible gamers, this is them talking to their own shareholders about important financial issues, and they could get sued to oblivion if they lie (or even go to prison for fraud). So, yes, they already knew they were going to make a good profit even without the lootboxes, which means the lootboxes are simple greed, as everybody suspected.

CD Projekt Red just did exactly the same thing. Shareholder call was all about Games as a service, then they announced that this was just "talk" for the money-men, and don't worry they're not actually doing anything like that.

It wasn't about making a 'good' profit... It was about have no impact on profit. So they either expected to sell zero loot-crates, therefore their removal had zero impact on profit. Or they now expect to sell more copies of the game, therefore zero impact on profit. Or more likely, they just reworded their pitch with examination of cherry-picked trends and crystal ball guesswork.

All EA do is show a report predicting increased sales due to the removal of lootboxes, therefore it doesn't affect sales. Ass-covering. I see this crap every week:

"Here is the proposal for purchasing company/technology X. It will position us to take advantage of trend Y."

The deal then falls through because it was going to be more expensive to implement, or it wasn't all it was cracked up to be...

"We've decided not to purchase company/technology X because this study by the University of 'Prove Anything With a Single Study' clearly shows that we should be moving away from this area. So we are now actually in a BETTER position after spending the initial investment on investigation ."

The ass-covering reports basically contradict every point that they made 3 months earlier to justify the spending of $Half a million on a $400 million purchase. Somehow we're always in a much better position after spending the money on nothing. Strange how that always works out for us.

It's not lying. It predicting business models, and you can prove anything you want based on past sales and industry trends if you just choose the correct stats to prove your point.


Also, EA shut down the Visceral Star Wars game... That could have been a cash-cow for greedy execs... But apparently it wasn't very good, so they canned it.


Christ, it actually sounds like I'm defending EA, while I'm actually accusing them of creative sale's pitch to investors, the same as every company... Bleugh.

[pjknibbs]

The NHS may not be great, in fact yes I will admit it tends to suck pretty hard in some places.

But I got full post brain damage rehab that was so good I was back at work 8 months later, and it didn't cost me a penny.

When my mother had a minor heart attack earlier this year she was airlifted to a hospital 30 miles away via air ambulance. She had a stent put in to the blocked artery in her heart and was in hospital for around a week...and all at no expense to herself. Which is good, because she's 81 and probably wouldn't have any means to *pay* for that treatment. And what do you know? There wasn't a death panel anywhere to be seen!

[Morkonan]

..If they ever get around to making the multiplayer progression based on playing a class, and rewarding the winners etc, then I might think about buying. As it stands, their implementation of loot-boxes for progression is disgraceful, and I'm glad that they are being investigated.

I'm a big fan of the old SWBFII. I make sure it's installed on any 'puter I have had since it came out. I play it more infrequently, these days, but am glad it was such a great game. (By the way, GoG is now hosting multiplayer servers and, while there have always been multiplayer service options since Gamespy went down, there's something of a resurgence of the good old SWBFII now that GoG is on-board.)

However, I played the SWBFEA version on PS4 and... I liked it. I, too, scoffed at the idea of a "classless" SWBF. I was also flabbergasted that there was no single-player campaign, no space-battles, no "Conquest" mode, etc. But, gameplay was good, controls were good (And I hate console FPS controls, btw) and the maps were mostly decent. The devs were responsive to early problems and exploits (mostly) and the "unlocking" system of progression by getting access to new weapons/specials didn't severely hamper new players in combat with higher ranked ones due to balancing issues.

All in all, it was a good experience and I enjoyed it. Personally, I think it is/was an excellent "couch shooter." My experience was good, it was fun, the weapons were truly different enough to matter, but none more powerful than others (exception, a certain collector's edition pistol at first) and certain weapon and special combinations truly dictated certain sorts of playstyles, which more-or-less helped to differentiate play so that one had something like a "class" experience if one wished, but wouldn't be limited to that.

In short - It's not SWBFII, but SWBFEA was/is a good, fun, "couch-shooter."

The drawbacks when I played - Communication sucks as there isn't any, there's no way to match-make (at the time I played) for large groups (like guilds/clans), but a group of up to four friends can stay together through matches, and some maps are sniper-heaven...

To Sum: If you're only put off by a lack of "classes", SWBFEA is a game that's "good enough" to get you over that hump, IMO. I shared the same reservations, but was convinced of its quality after playing it for awhile.

[mrbadger]

I haven't bought an EA game since they killed off CnC, and now it seems clear that if they do resurrect it, it will be a corpse reanimated by Micro Transactions and powered by Loot Boxes.

So a thing I will never want to play. Why do people still buy these things? All these complaints, but people are clearly spending their money on them anyway. How dumb is that.

I have Origin installed so I can play the original CnC games.

I honestly worry that my purchase might somehow get retconned into a rental, so I have to pay again to get access to my games.

[Morkonan]

...I honestly worry that my purchase might somehow get retconned into a rental, so I have to pay again to get access to my games.

That may not be far off. Though, the first publishers/distributors to do that would have to break through that wall with something big, like offering a large "free" library or building up a community that was desirable enough to "pay for."

Consoles already do this. Both Xbox and PS require at least a yearly fee in order to access multiplayer options over their network. To offset this, they offer "discounts" off of storefront purchases and occasional "freebies" and perks for subscribers.

What I wonder is what happens if there's a development such that one of the big e-retailers have to shut their doors or change their scheme to such an extent that titles in a user's library are no longer accessible.

If Steam goes belly-up or has to radically change to such an extent that users can't access their game libraries, which they don't "own" access to, anyway, the word "Armageddon" will have to be redefined...

[mrbadger]

I have a two lecture set in my Open Source Development Module where I talk about this subject at length.

Funny thing is, just before the EA thing broke, I was talking about Loot boxes with my students, and they were mostly saying 'yeah, they're ok, don't cost too much'. How insidious it all is, they don't even realise they're being conned.....

My lecture slides are so extensive I can't read them, and don't really try. I just flick through them and witter as usual.

Next year they won't be lecture slides, they'll be an accompanying booklet, at which point I can make them as extensive as I like, and refer to them when I want to.

Plus as a booklet I'll be free to expand it without worrying about a time limit for delivery, and other lecturers can use it, such as on the games course we teach.

My idea is to inspire my students to think that perhaps the games industry might just have the way of making money from computerised entertainment wrong, and there could be a new, more open, and possibly very profitable way.

One that doesn't treat players like dirt.

[Morkonan]

...My idea is to inspire my students to think that perhaps the games industry might just have the way of making money from computerised entertainment wrong, and there could be a new, more open, and possibly very profitable way.

One that doesn't treat players like dirt.

Conventional consumer models don't work well... A "Goods and Services" consumption model with value-based purchases is hard to weigh against "users" who are paying for an "experience."

How valuable is someone's experience and who determines whether or not a price for that experience is "fair?"

People have paid tens of thousands of dollars (USD) for game "experiences" and companies actively hunt for these addicts/enthusiasts. (ie: "Zynga" and their ilk) But, today, with easy-access to consumers being very commonplace, large companies are adopting similar models, albeit "hesitantly" and, arguably, more insidiously.

In every legal environment, there's going to be that one instance of egregious violation that gives rise to a "new law." In commercial sectors, I think that dynamic is much more restrained unless actual physical harm results - Governments are hesitant to disrupt business practices, fearing they could reduce the cash flow. (The spice must flow... )

It's also obvious that large corporations can afford to influence laws to make things "more fair" for them than others.

In the end, few companies base decisions that have monetary consequences on "ethics" or something as nebulous as "morality."

And, this is the problem, today - We know its unethical, perhaps even immoral, and so do they. But, the spice flows and, so far, nobody noteworthy enough has actually suffered physical, real, harm from it. Yet...

[Morkonan]

On topics "not worthy of their own thread", one has decided that "you guys" are one of those topics!

But, in a good way.

Yesterday was the U.S.'s "Thanksgiving Day", the day we're all supposed to reflect on things we're thankful for. So, a day late and a dollar short, so the saying goes, I'm giving thanks to Egosoft and all its forum members with providing me with plenty of great experiences over the years.

For those things, I am truly thankful.

Thanks, all!

[greypanther]

In the town I live in we have a medical practice, but also an out of hours centre too. They positively like people to use them, as if they don't get enough usage they will be closed. Can you check if you have something similar close by ? I think it's mainly aimed as a sub A&E service, but they may be able to help with all sorts of issues.

Worth checking ...

Rug

We absolutely do have one of these, I have even used it in the past, ( long waiting times though, ) however, in my current situation they could not be of use, because it is a continuance of what happened to me in July and the consequences from that. I will just have to be patient.

I don't think the torries are secretly dismantling the NHS... I just think they are only ever looking at the short term of cutting a few hundred million £ here and there and it all mounts up. And thanks to brexit we'll probably lose a lot of foreign staff which will make it worse.

I will concede, I do tend to focus on the bad Tory ways more than the opposition, this comes from the fact that a Conservative politician told me this was the Tory plan. Get people to despair at the quality of service, then they will agree when massive root and branch reform is proposed. He was rather drunk at the time and it was back in the late 80's, early 90's. He left a mark and even though tipsy, made it seem very plausible. He said it would take several decades, but it would be very worth while, in the long run. Personally I would say that the NHS has always been underfunded to some extent, my whole life, whichever colour of government holds the purse strings.

I am sick and tired of Brexit being blamed for everything, that is just weak, imo. As for foreign nurses leaving because of it, not likely, from what I have been told most foreign nurse come from places like the Philippines etc, so couldn't give a monkeys about brexit.

I still get irritated by my local services, which aren't great, but I don't like to complain to the staff on the ground, never that.

I hate it when I see people who do.

Nor do I especially with me having a sister with looong first hand experience, more especially so, since my trip in a paramedic emergency ambulance in July. They work really hard and the very vast majority are extremely hard working and devoted to their patients. Paramedics and ambulance staff in general are some of the most undervalued public servants we have.

Now the managers, ( who are far too many in number, ) are a different matter. My sister works in awful conditions with some very long shifts, mostly due to chronic understaffing. she is often in charge of two wards and her longest shift was just short of 16 hours. In what world is that considered safe or wise? The staff have just been leaving and not getting replaced. British born staff that is, some leaving the profession completely, some considering Australia, the conditions are that bad!

When my mother had a minor heart attack earlier this year she was airlifted to a hospital 30 miles away via air ambulance. She had a stent put in to the blocked artery in her heart and was in hospital for around a week...and all at no expense to herself. Which is good, because she's 81 and probably wouldn't have any means to *pay* for that treatment. And what do you know? There wasn't a death panel anywhere to be seen!

No one is arguing that the NHS is a wonderful thing, it is possibly one of the best health systems in the world. However as things are going, whether intended or not, it will collapse in the end. I wonder if the state of things as it is has cost any lives? You do know that the wonderful air ambulances are, ( unless you live on some of the Scottish islands, ) paid for and organised by charities, yes? Of course she didn't have to pay, I am confused at the point you are trying to make here. My point was simply: How long will such a world leading service be available, whilst such neglect is going on? Will we still have it when we reach 81? Assuming we are lucky enough to reach it.

What is a death panel? Relevance?

I say raise taxes and fund the NHS properly, as well as pay the staff properly!

[Alan Phipps]

@ greypanther: Death panel.

[greypanther]

Thank you Alan, though I am still unsure of the relevance to this little discussion.

One Tory decision that definitely affected the NHS recently, was the removal of nurses bursaries. Which imbecile thought that was a good idea?
Would you still train to be a nurse or midwife today?

But will the removal of the NHS bursaries simply deepen the nursing recruitment crisis? 40,000 nursing posts are currently unfilled, and there are concerns that ending the bursary scheme will stop students from working class and mature backgrounds applying to train. Nursing students already face very different challenges from other students, says Janet Davies, chief executive of the Royal College of Nursing - for example they have little time to do paid work to cover their living costs at university as they are required to undertake clinical placements during non-term time. More than 20 charities, medical and professional bodies and trade unions have called ending the bursary an “untested gamble”.

[felter]

So the BBC have done a report on loot boxes in gaming. in a way I do feel for EA as they seem to be the ones who are being picked on over this and they are not the only ones who are doing it though when they comment and say:

the crates were not gambling and it was a gamer's decision about whether they took advantage of the "optional feature".

To me that in essence is what gambling is about, where it's the gamblers decision on whether they gamble, placing their bet down with the optional feature, normally where they can do something like doubling up or not. There main reasoning they come up for it not being gambling, is that you do get something, the thing is most of the time that something is next to worthless and you will probably have to pay more to get something decent, but you still have that chance and it's a pretty high chance that the next time the item will be worthless again.

Also trying to make it out that it is not gambling because you don't get something physical back, is total bull manure. Whenever the word chance is used, it is gambling as that is what gambling is, whether the reward is real or digital does not make any difference, it is still a game of chance or in other words gambling.

[felter]

Next one is another BBC report and this time even more companies have pulled their adverts from youtube/google and I don't blame them. This time it's due to youtube rather slow removal of some pretty awful things that are on youtube.

I actually ended up on one of those kiddy channels the other week there and I was pretty shocked by it. While it was not porn it was not far from it. I ended up on it by accident as a recommended video, the thumbnail made it look like a comedy mishap video but it turned out to be a young girl around 11, 12 showing off her clothes and I don't mean skirts and shirts, I mean the stuff underneath those and the video had been up for years. While a lot of the comments were saying it was kiddy porn not all of them were doing so.

I'm just glad I don't normally get those kind of videos recommended to me, and I hope they are now removing them from the site.

[Golden_Gonads]

If lootboxes are deemed as gambling and legislated as such, does that mean the same law would apply to Kinder Eggs? MacDonald's Happy Meals? Church fete lucky dip stands?

[pjknibbs]

If lootboxes are deemed as gambling and legislated as such, does that mean the same law would apply to Kinder Eggs? MacDonald's Happy Meals? Church fete lucky dip stands?

If you can prove that kids go out and buy dozens of Kinder Eggs in order to get a specific toy, or spend pounds on the lucky dip in the hope of getting something good, then sure, the law should apply to them. Do you have any evidence of that happening?

[Golden_Gonads]

If you can prove that kids go out and buy dozens of Kinder Eggs in order to get a specific toy, or spend pounds on the lucky dip in the hope of getting something good, then sure, the law should apply to them. Do you have any evidence of that happening?

The amount spent doesn't matter. If it's 10p or £5000, it's still gambling.

Edit: Here's your case - http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/au ... s-10995689