[Mayhem 3] Renegades 3.0

[Betelgeuse97]

Just started playing X3 again and saw this, looks great. Are large ship bailings disabled or just not shown in satellite monitoring ?
Even an option to show all bailed ships would be nice.

I miss this, even though it was very rare to find.... it was nice to find one and race to get it first

Yes, renegades (includes ZH) disables large ship bailings. Only fighters may bail, but you can use the hacking station to get bigger ships to bail via oxygen hack.

[Joelnh]

Just started playing X3 again and saw this, looks great. Are large ship bailings disabled or just not shown in satellite monitoring ?
Even an option to show all bailed ships would be nice.

I miss this, even though it was very rare to find.... it was nice to find one and race to get it first

Yes, renegades (includes ZH) disables large ship bailings. Only fighters may bail, but you can use the hacking station to get bigger ships to bail via oxygen hack.

thank you for the information, so much I forgot about since playing this last.

[Joelnh]

does anyone know where theres a guide to hacking ?
I haven't used that feature and want to figure it out.

[isosphere]

There appears to be a save file corruption bug related to saving while docked at an outpost. It seems to only occur after some tasks have been performed with the outpost (assigning workers, adding an item to the build queue). After saving the game, if one goes to the save menu again they will find that the slot they used is empty. If they check their filesystem, the file exists. Renaming the outpost and saving again appears to temporarily resolve the issue, even if still docked.

As saving is a core game feature I have made a post in the technical support forums about this: viewtopic.php?f=93&t=462479&p=5228273#p5228273

However it does appear to be reproducible with only Renegades installed.

[Hairless-Ape]

Unfortunately, there is no ability through the Scripting engine to control the inner workings of saving games, so a bit of guessing is all we can do. From script, we can call "save game slot#".. and that's the full extent of direct control. (fyi, you posted to the Farnham's legacy tech support forum, which is a different beast)

When you are at an outpost and you go through the save game menu, this functionality is not driven by any of the scripts we have access to. Perhaps something built into the game exe or dll's. I'm not saying all the crazy stuff modders have done to outposts are not impacting things in an indirect manner.

The dev in the thread you posted above mentioned "using any unusual characters or font/colour output", and that is likely having some effect. One thing you could try is to set your outpost color back to "default". It was only recently changed where new outposts were being given a different color for their name, and I've seen other areas of code, where colored names has an adverse effect (not because coloring them is bad, but rather other code that processes that game object can't properly handle it). It still doesn't explain why quicksave and autosave work fine, but you could give it a try.

I don't think there's a way to directly determine what this could be unless one could debug the source code and see it happen in real-time, and that's just not going to happen. X3 development by egosoft is long dead.

Just hit your quicksave (F5) or use the new Auto-save that saves on a timer and ignore saving through the outpost menu.

[Alan Phipps]

"The dev in the thread you posted ..." for clarity, I'm not a dev; I'm just a player/forum moderator.

[Joelnh]

I am enjoying this mod combo, lots to learn. well done!
Would it be possible to show jump distance on missions after they have been accepted as well?
currently it only shows the jump distance before being accepted.

[isosphere]

(fyi, you posted to the Farnham's legacy tech support forum, which is a different beast)

It's the combined technical support forum for FL, AP, and TC.

It still doesn't explain why quicksave and autosave work fine, but you could give it a try.

Autosave does not work - those saves are also invisible. I haven't tried quicksave but I'd put money on that not working either.

I don't think there's a way to directly determine what this could be unless one could debug the source code and see it happen in real-time, and that's just not going to happen. X3 development by egosoft is long dead.

I did run the game with a debugger (gdb) attached to try and investigate this, though I don't think my observations will be that helpful. I was unable to find my outpost's name in the heap until I renamed it, which is a little weird. It looks like every time a station is renamed it creates a new string somewhere on the heap, and that heap is always expanding. The location of the name on the heap is pretty random after each rename.

Are you aware of any scripts in LU/Mayhem/Renegades that controls the creation and naming of a fresh outpost? Is there something I could search for? Is that code any different from placing other stations? Are we using "create sector object"?

I agree with you that this is ultimately a game engine bug, but also that we cannot expect a solution to come in the form of a patch from the development team. I'm hoping we can find a way to make this work despite the bug. The fact that the engine just shows the saves to be invisible and provides no feedback whatsoever to console or a log file is pretty disappointing. If instead it said "Bad station name at index 42" then this would be much easier to work with.

If we fail to find anything causal in the scripts, we might already have a potential solution. If my solution of renaming the station before saving is an enduring one, perhaps we could add a script that automatically renames outposts when the player docks to them. In my observations you don't actually have to provide a different name, in the interface I've been adding a space and deleting it before confirming the rename.

I'm not sure this solution will reliably work long-term, though, or that we can do the rename before autosave happens.


-----


As suggested, I have re-coloured my outpost via Select Outpost -> Advanced -> Command Console -> Slot x -> Colour Station Name -> Default and it seems to address the problem, I haven't been able to reproduce it. The save file generated does not show the extra padding characters I have mentioned when viewed in a hex editor. I think these hex characters before and after the outpost name are colour escape codes, and I think that my hypothesis that we're accidentally reapplying colour on top of something that is already coloured would explain this behaviour. I believe if all colour is stripped before being applied, we could have our outpost colours and save stability too.

[Hairless-Ape]

This issue has been fixed. Patch is available at the top.

[TheVillain]

I was looking to scratch the X3 itch again, and this is amazing work to see the Mayhem project keep on going!

Found two potential bugs:

1. My first 'detected an old signal' for an abandoned ship isn't moving on even though I've claimed it. Have I missed something here or does it just shuffle every x days?

2. The Couguar Raider has a hull of 100.

For context the next lowest hull is 45k, and the standard Couguar is 100k.
I did not modify or shake up the ship stats myself, and this might be an old bug from litcube or somewhere further up the chain. But yeah, seems waaay too low for an M3.

EDIT

I'm also getting the 'wrong sector callout', as in its labelled X but the voice over says Y. Not critical, but odd.

[Hairless-Ape]

1. I've not seen that happen before. Keep an eye on it. I would like to hear if anyone else has seen this, as I've not in my own games. (yet)

2. Cougar Raider is a bug for sure. Will put that one in my notes for future fixes.

3. Wrong sector name issue is one of those weird ones that used to happens for some and not others. I thought that was all fixed, but it's a weird one. Make absolutely sure you're generating a new map and that you have Activated it from within ZMap. Also make sure you've run that Cleanup.bat file per the install instructions.
As a last resort, you could also try to use the old (original) map generator from Joubarbe once to generate a map, run it until the game starts and then just exit. Then use ZMap to create your maps from then on. This used to solve the problem, but like I say, I was sure that issue was resolved so I'm surprised. Let me know.

[TheVillain]

1. I've not seen that happen before. Keep an eye on it. I would like to hear if anyone else has seen this, as I've not in my own games. (yet)

2. Cougar Raider is a bug for sure. Will put that one in my notes for future fixes.

3. Wrong sector name issue is one of those weird ones that used to happens for some and not others. I thought that was all fixed, but it's a weird one. Make absolutely sure you're generating a new map and that you have Activated it from within ZMap. Also make sure you've run that Cleanup.bat file per the install instructions.
As a last resort, you could also try to use the old (original) map generator from Joubarbe once to generate a map, run it until the game starts and then just exit. Then use ZMap to create your maps from then on. This used to solve the problem, but like I say, I was sure that issue was resolved so I'm surprised. Let me know.

Update.

1. All secondary Missions are not progressing, I've accepted a 'find ship at sector X and return to station, you can keep the ship'. Ship name is blue, returned it, been in sector, OOS, docked it myself. Nothing, wont clear the mission, nothing in the comms to clear it, nothing in the journal. Also Declined a mission, but its still listed as a 'possible mission'. Cant seem to accept or open any other missions from other stations. Very odd.

2. Fixed my end using XEditor. Pitty the pilots otherwise.

3. Will try this tomorrow, I used the Zmap but will try using the old galaxy gen and test. I'm 99% sure I used the cleanup file but I had to reinstall everything as my 'steam validated' backup I keep installed caused the game to hard crash when loading beyond the main menu. Now I think about it I'm less sure I did it on the second install. I'll try all the above and get back to you.


This is amazing btw, was umming and erring about X4, zero regrets getting this set up. The Magic of the Egosoft intro music, opening up the Personal Journal again and looking at sector stats...ah good times.

[Negmek]

Been playing for a couple days (yeah, i didnt like the original game when i tried it the first time tears ago, but this mod is SOMETHING ELSE), and i'm running into an issue:

Im using gladiator bombers with rapier missiles. At first all is great, they hit their targets, even small fighters, all good. But after a few battles the missiles start missing, or rather flying THROUHG THE MODEL of the target fighter without exploding. They seem to still work on bigger ship. But i'm sure its abnormal, because at first they didn't miss ever, and now they can fly bang on through the middle and don't explode. Several times in a row even until they self-destroy.

The first time it happened i was able to reload an earlier save and it just worked, but now i played in fighters for a while with no missiles, so i don't know what broke or when. I googled the hell out of this, but disnt see a single mention of this issue elsewhere.

[Alan Phipps]

It's long been a general X3 thing that if you save while missiles are in flight and later reload the save, those flying missiles and any you launch whilst they are still flying will probably misbehave and not hit anything. The more missiles flying, the more they may misbehave. Old thread on this.

[Negmek]

Wow, i was sure that i didn't do that, but just in case i teleported to an isolated system and saved-loaded a bunch of times, and it fixed. Thanks so much, i guess my googling skills need improving.

[TheVillain]

Ok so turns out, I didnt do the cleanup on my second install.

Sigh - sorry for taking your time, user error. 2am in my defence. So far everything now seems to work.

[TheVillain]

Odd question/request...

I've always wanted to do more from my TL in the early game. To treat it like a mini outpost.

I've been looking/fiddling with the scripts for jobs, and wondered if its possible to get explorers/tugs/salvage jobs to work from a TL? Just looking to use them as a hub before I set down roots.
I find my early Outposts 'stall' for lack of kickstarting, and getting explorers to go and zoom about while I do bounties/odd jobs/etc would be a nice early game activity. Maybe get some tugs or salvage crews going for scooping up wares.

Any direction on how i could modify which files would be really appreciated.

[Hairless-Ape]

Odd question/request...
I've always wanted to do more from my TL in the early game. To treat it like a mini outpost.
I've been looking/fiddling with the scripts for jobs, and wondered if its possible to get explorers/tugs/salvage jobs to work from a TL? Just looking to use them as a hub before I set down roots.
I find my early Outposts 'stall' for lack of kickstarting, and getting explorers to go and zoom about while I do bounties/odd jobs/etc would be a nice early game activity. Maybe get some tugs or salvage crews going for scooping up wares. Any direction on how i could modify which files would be really appreciated.

That's a tall order really, but possible. I think the returns for the effort would be low, but I do understand how it would be nice to automate some of the early startup activities.
As for code..
. Mayhem.Task.Worker.Explorer.xml - This runs the explorer. It assumes it has a home-base where it can pickup advanced satellites. It also assumes it's an outpost. There's no current mechanism for telling it to home-base out of a TL when exploring.
. Mayhem.Task.Worker.Tug.xml - Same for Tugs. Also, tug-captured ships are programmed to find the nearest safe station, which there are none of, so some work needed there on top of everything else.
. Mayhem.task.Worker.Looter.xml - Same.. more of.

The code to assign these to their jobs is all part of outpost management screens, and without an outpost, you'd need some ability to replicate this. I think this would be the harder of the tasks. Next, you'd need variants of the scripts above running on your ships.

Finally, as I did with Hector0x, you need to consider the ramifications of simultaneous development on the very same files and come to an understanding first. Conflicts of purpose, merging difficulties and just plain agreement on direction and function can be very challenging if you are not the primary developer or an experienced team developer. If you're doing it for yourself, or plan on releasing a separate product that's one thing. If you are planning on integrating any serious new features with an existing work (like Renegades), you will need to understand how to go about making that.

[TheVillain]

Thankyou for taking the time to give such a detailed and thought out response.

I had rummage in those files, i'm kind of familiar with xml from other games but x3 is more complex. The work done to make outposts function as they do is staggering to me and tinkering with that makes me raise eyebrows to the point they pack a bag and threaten to leave.

Your totally right about versioning, and duplicating function. I was just going to do it for myself, not to publish or fork MH3 or anything. I think one of the joys of X3 is the sandbox and modding posibilities. Hell it features an ingame script editor. Unfortunately I just hit things with a wrench until it does something cool.
For now I settled on just manually running the old 'explore universe' command for exploring the map and microing the occasional sattelite.

Out of interest, where do people 'settle' to do the management in x3? You cant (at least I don't remember being able to?) seta in a station, so I usually just hop to a nearby empty sector and do all the menu diving from there. But I wonder sometimes about a better solution. Could a pocket sector be made that only the player can jump to (like the old unfocused jumpdrive)? Could a player...pilot a station? Just so seta works? I dunno.

[Negmek]

I do all the management while bountyhunting, preferably in the middle of the chase lol. The fact that the pirates are actually living their normal pirate life while im trying to hunt them down makes it way too much fun, but there is still plenty of waiting time while traveling. I have a meh-ish pc, so sometimes the FPS is too low for comfortable management when im flying past a huge fleet, but i still never felt the need to deliberately find a quiet spot for it... Even the loading screen while passing a gate isnt that annoying.